Running to the Noise, Episode 20

Carmen: Season two of Running to the Noise may have wrapped. But our community of listeners continues to grow. Thanks to all of you and the incredible guests who have shared their stories. This summer, we’re revisiting the episode that started it all: my conversation with actor, comedian, and author Ed Helms with his signature wit.

Ed dives into themes that feel more timely than ever, including his fascination with big historical blunders. His new book, SNAFU: The Definitive Guide to History’s Greatest Screw Ups, is out now, making this the perfect moment to reshare our chat. You can find the link to Ed’s book in our show notes wherever you listen to this podcast.

We’re thrilled to bring Ed’s insight and humor back for a well-deserved encore as we gear up for season three of Running to the Noise this fall. Enjoy.

I’m Carmen Twillie Ambar, president of Oberlin College and Conservatory. Welcome to Running to the Noise, where I speak with all sorts of folks who are tackling our toughest problems and working to spark positive change around the world. Because here at Oberlin, we don’t shy away from the challenging situations that threaten to divide us. We run towards them.

Ed Helms: And Lawrence Rutherford gazed upon the majestic valley and thus declared, “This is where we belong.” And so in 1638, he brokered a uniquely fair and honest deal with our neighbors, the Minishanka, thus establishing our town. Now, the terms of the deal were laid out in this document. One of those terms was to honor the exact location the deal was made, which is why a century later, both parties came together and erected a statue of old Lawrence, affectionately known today as Big Larry.

Carmen: Question—did they make a statue of any Minishanka?

Ed Helms: Great question. And bronze was very expensive at the time, so they really only had a budget for the one.

Carmen: That was Ed Helms as Nathan Rutherford in Rutherford Falls, a comedy Helms co-created for Peacock.

Carmen: Today’s guest is actor and comedian Ed Helms, class of 1996. He’s perhaps best known for his roles on The Daily Show, The Office, The Hangover trilogy, and for co-creating and starring in the Peacock comedy Rutherford Falls. He’s also the co-host of SNAFU, a podcast that dives into the details and fallout of some of history’s biggest disasters and near misses. And his new book, SNAFU: The Definitive Guide to History’s Greatest Screw Ups, is out now.

Ed has had a remarkable career. But in this conversation, we go beyond the headlines to explore what makes him tick. How he found his voice. How he uses humor to push for civic engagement. And how he manages to stay hopeful in a time when so many of us are feeling overwhelmed. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Carmen: Ed, thank you so much for being on Running to the Noise. You are probably one of the most famous Oberlin grads of your era. And yet, a lot of people may not realize that you were a music major. Can you take us back to that time and share what drew you to Oberlin in the first place?

Ed Helms: Sure. First of all, thank you so much for having me. This is a real treat and honor and pleasure to be back at Oberlin in any form. I’m so grateful for my time there and so grateful to talk to you. What drew me to Oberlin in the first place was the conservatory. I was obsessed with music in high school and I really wanted to go to a conservatory, but I also wanted to have a liberal arts experience. And Oberlin is such a rare combination of the two.

Ed Helms: I also had an amazing voice teacher in high school named Frank Albinder, who was in Chanticleer and the Bobs and just this extraordinary a cappella musician and singer. And he really encouraged me to look at Oberlin. He said it would be a great place for me. So, I applied and visited and just fell in love with it. I think I applied early decision because I knew it was where I wanted to go. And that was it. I was in.

Carmen: And when you came to Oberlin, were you thinking you wanted to be a professional musician? Was that the direction you thought your life would go?

Ed Helms: Yes, definitely. At that time, I think I had a very fuzzy notion of what that meant. I didn’t have a particular path in mind, but I knew I wanted music to be a part of my life, and I loved singing. I loved a cappella. I loved choir. I loved jazz. And so I thought maybe I’d be a jazz singer or maybe I’d go into conducting or something in the choral world. I really didn’t know. But that’s what I wanted to pursue.

Carmen: So when did the acting and the comedy come in? Was that something you had always done in parallel?

Ed Helms: It had always been kind of a background interest. I was always a fan of comedy. I loved stand-up. I loved sketch. I was obsessed with Monty Python and Saturday Night Live. I used to watch The Tonight Show and David Letterman all the time. But it never occurred to me that it could be a career path. That seemed like a different planet. So I didn’t really pursue it until I got to Oberlin, and I discovered improv.

Ed Helms: I started doing improv comedy with a group called Sunshine Scouts. And that was kind of the beginning. It was just a hobby at first. It was fun, it was social, it was creative, it was different from my studies. And it slowly started to take over. I became obsessed with it. And I think by the end of my junior year, I was doing improv multiple times a week. We were performing a lot. I started to explore stand-up and sketch a little bit more. And that’s when the bug really bit me.

Carmen: Was there a particular moment where you thought, "Oh, I might actually want to try this professionally?"

Ed Helms: Yeah. There was a moment my senior year when I was applying to grad schools for conducting and classical music. I had this whole application packet I had put together. I’d done all the auditions, recorded all the tapes, and I just didn’t send them. I realized, kind of at the eleventh hour, that I wasn’t being honest with myself. That my passion had really shifted. And I thought, if I don’t try comedy now, I’ll always wonder what might have happened. So I scrapped the grad school plans and moved to New York instead.

Carmen: That must have been a scary leap.

Ed Helms: Terrifying. But also exhilarating. I had no money, no job, no connections. But I had this sense that I needed to give it a shot. I figured I’d wait tables, do some open mics, maybe take some classes. And I was lucky. I found a good community pretty quickly. I started studying at the Upright Citizens Brigade and eventually got a job as a video editor, which helped pay the bills while I kept performing.

Ed Helms: And then, a few years in, I got an audition for The Daily Show. I didn’t think much of it at the time—I figured it was a long shot—but I ended up getting it. That changed everything. It gave me a national platform, introduced me to a whole new world of writers and performers, and opened the door to other opportunities in TV and film.

Carmen: I want to go back to something you said earlier about Oberlin being a place where your passion shifted. What was it about the environment here that allowed that to happen?

Ed Helms: That’s a great question. Oberlin is such a unique place because it really encourages experimentation. There’s this spirit of curiosity and openness. I never felt boxed in. Even though I was a conservatory student, I had the freedom to explore other disciplines, to try new things, to make mistakes. That was huge. Also, the people I met—the other students, the professors—they were all so passionate and engaged. It made me want to be better. It made me feel like I could reinvent myself.

Carmen: That’s such a beautiful way to describe it. I think a lot of Oberlin students will relate to that. I also think it’s interesting that you found your voice as a performer in a space that wasn’t necessarily designed for it. Improv wasn’t part of the curriculum, right?

Ed Helms: No, not at all. It was very grassroots. We had to fight for rehearsal space, organize our own shows, build our own audience. But that was part of the magic. It taught us to be scrappy. To hustle. To believe in what we were doing even if no one else understood it yet. And I think that’s a really valuable lesson for anyone trying to make art.

Carmen: You’ve built such a dynamic career—acting, comedy, producing, podcasting—and through all of it, there seems to be this thread of curiosity and civic engagement. How did that become part of your work?

Ed Helms: I think it’s always been part of who I am. Even in college, I was interested in politics and ethics and history. But I didn’t know how to connect that to my creative work for a long time. The Daily Show was a big moment for me because it showed me that comedy could be a way to talk about serious things. That satire could expose hypocrisy, make people think, even drive change. It was like a lightbulb went off.

Carmen: Do you think comedy has a special power in that way?

Ed Helms: I do. Laughter opens people up. It creates a kind of shared vulnerability. If you can make someone laugh, you’ve built a bridge. And once that bridge is there, you can walk some pretty heavy ideas across it. You can challenge assumptions, point out absurdities, ask tough questions. That’s the kind of comedy I love. And I think we need it now more than ever.

Carmen: That’s such an Oberlin answer.

Ed Helms: Guilty as charged.

Carmen: You also co-founded a nonprofit called RepresentUs that works to fight corruption and fix broken political systems. How did that come about?

Ed Helms: RepresentUs was born out of frustration, really. A group of us were looking at how dysfunctional the political system had become—how money and special interests were drowning out the will of regular people. And we thought, “There has to be a better way.” So we started this nonpartisan organization that focuses on structural reform—things like ranked choice voting, anti-gerrymandering laws, ethics rules. It’s all pretty unsexy, but it’s foundational. If we don’t fix the system, we can’t fix anything else.

Carmen: And has that work changed the way you think about your role as a public figure?

Ed Helms: Definitely. I used to think of my job as just making people laugh. But over time, I’ve realized that being in the public eye comes with a kind of responsibility. I don’t take that lightly. I’m not a politician, I’m not a scholar, but I do have a platform—and that means I have a chance to help people see things differently, to amplify voices, to push for fairness. So I try to use it wisely.

Carmen: Speaking of platforms, you’ve also launched a podcast called SNAFU that looks at major historical disasters. What drew you to that idea?

Ed Helms: I’ve always been fascinated by history—especially the messy, human side of it. I love learning about moments when everything went wrong, not because of one big villain, but because of a series of small missteps and blind spots and bad assumptions. Those stories are weirdly comforting to me because they remind us how fallible we are. They also show how much we can learn if we’re willing to really dig in and understand what happened. That’s what SNAFU is about.

Carmen: It sounds like a mix of comedy and cautionary tale.

Ed Helms: Exactly. We try to tell these stories with humor and humanity, but also with a sense of reverence for the lessons they contain. We’re not making fun of history—we’re learning from it, and hopefully helping others do the same.

Carmen: I imagine that appeals to the Oberlin part of you, too.

Ed Helms: No question. Oberlin taught me to ask why things are the way they are—and to care about making them better. That’s the thread that runs through everything I do, even when it doesn’t look overtly political or activist. It’s about curiosity, integrity, and compassion.

Ed Helms: But it’s just blind spots, that’s all. It’s just about trying to open those trap doors that we don’t even know are there. Like, oh my God, there’s so much more that I don’t understand or that just hasn’t been part of my life experience in any way. I think I started to understand that in a much more profound way.

I’ve always understood that intellectually—ever since Oberlin, really. I mean, Oberlin really helped me try to think and appreciate broader perspectives. And so I felt like I had a solid understanding of that. But in this process on Rutherford Falls, getting deeper in a really casual and fun—and oftentimes very funny—setting, which was our writers’ room, hearing and just being with the experiences of a lot of these writers from very different backgrounds—including a lot of Native American writers from very different backgrounds within the Native American community—it just deepened my appreciation and commitment to having different voices.

Carmen: You know, I have to say, Ed. I’m sitting here as president of a college, and we are always working to create an environment that looks like the world—because we think if students are going to understand the world, they have to see the world as it exists. I’m so glad that you talked about humility first as a way you entered this space, and then an appreciation for these different backgrounds.

One of the things I just want to add to the conversation is that sometimes people think that’s important because it helps the people who are “bringing the diversity,” right? And I would just offer up that all the evidence suggests that we’re all the better for a more diverse background. It’s good for business, it’s good for society. And you just talked about your own experience of growth—that wasn’t about the people you helped bring into the room. They got a better experience, but everyone got a better experience. And we, the audience, got a better experience.

Ed Helms: Absolutely.

Carmen: Because it was a more authentic story.

Ed Helms: But I should add too that I’m kind of embarrassed to tell that story—because I thought I was further along that curve than I was. And so it’s humbling. I don’t tell this story as some sort of triumphant growth moment for Ed Helms, like “I see the light.” I actually am frustrated that this experience was as illuminating as it was. I feel like I should have been further along that curve a long time ago.

Carmen: You know, one of the things I say sometimes to people about this—because I appreciate that—is that sometimes the first path to understanding is recognizing that you don’t understand. If you can’t recognize that first, then it’s hard to get down the path any further.

But the other thing is that one of the challenges I think we’re experiencing now is we’re in these silos where we never talk to anybody who’s unlike us. We never engage with anybody who has a different perspective. We’ve actually started to believe that that’s a negative almost. Right?

And so how are we going to get through this if we’re not willing to do that a little bit?

So I don’t know, but I definitely want to talk about—before our time gets finished—your work on RepresentUs. But I have to say, if you haven’t seen the satirical public service announcement that Ed did around realizing that gerrymanders are not adorable lizards…

But I guess the question I wanted to ask about that, Ed—because I think sometimes when you’re in the types of roles that you’re in—

Carmen: You know, you have a pretty big platform, and you can just choose not to say anything about these tough issues. And you’ve chosen to use your platform in a way to be helpful to the country. Why did you decide to do that?

Ed Helms: Well, I guess I’d say a couple of things. One is I don’t always feel like I’m doing enough. I don’t feel like I’m doing nearly enough. I think the problems that we face right now are very structural. And some of them are cultural, some of them are structural, and some are both. And it’s hard to know how to engage productively with that stuff.

And so I try to just do a little bit here and there. RepresentUs is an organization that really appealed to me because it’s a very nonpartisan—truly nonpartisan—organization that is just fighting to fix our broken election systems. And it’s kind of interesting because we have the best election systems in the world in some states, and the worst in others. And so how do we kind of normalize and just bring everything up to a really excellent level?

And that’s what RepresentUs is trying to do. They’re trying to root out corruption, improve voting access, and make our system work better. They’re not trying to make it work for one side or another.

Ed Helms: And it just feels like that kind of initiative is a good use of my voice, because I have fans across the political spectrum. And it feels good to be able to engage in that way, in a way that doesn’t feel like I’m alienating one group or another. Because, really, who doesn’t want elections to work properly? Who doesn’t want access to be fair?

I think there’s so much that’s dividing us right now. And it’s so heartbreaking. I have family members that I can’t talk to anymore because we can’t find any common ground. And that’s really tragic.

And so this is an area where I feel like there’s a lot of common ground, and there’s a lot of opportunity for progress and for making things better.

Carmen: I agree. And I think that sometimes people think that if you speak out, you have to be perfect. You have to be completely engaged. And I love how you’re like, “You know, I do a little here, a little there.” It’s OK for people to think about small steps of engagement. That’s really powerful.

Ed Helms: That’s so important, Carmen. I appreciate you saying that because I think there’s a kind of paralysis that sets in with a lot of people, especially younger people. Because the world is so overwhelming, and it’s so broken in so many ways. And it feels like there’s no hope, and there’s nothing they can do.

But every little bit does count. And if you pick an issue and you just engage a little bit—write a letter, call a senator, volunteer—it all matters. It all adds up.

Ed Helms: And I try to remind myself of that too. I get paralyzed. I get overwhelmed and feel like it’s hopeless. And I just have to sort of slap myself in the face and be like, “No, just pick one little thing and do that. Just one little thing.”

Carmen: That’s right. I’m always saying to folks: “Just do the thing that’s in front of you. Don’t worry about whether it’s big or small. Just do the thing that’s in front of you.” Because if we all did that, we’d be further along.

You mentioned earlier that you have a daughter. And I know she’s still very young, but how do you think about your parenting and your work and the things that you’re involved in now that you’re a parent?

Ed Helms: Oh, wow. It’s such a game-changer, Carmen. I mean, it’s just—everything changes. And it’s the best thing in the world. It’s the best thing I’ve ever done. And I didn’t expect to love it as much as I do.

But it just—it reframes everything. It changes the way you see the world. It changes the way you think about the future. It changes the way you think about your responsibilities, and your time, and your priorities.

And it gives you a much deeper understanding of your own parents and their sacrifices. And it just brings a lot of clarity.

Ed Helms: ...a little bit cynical is because of like, of course people are gonna be interested in that. It’s like a car wreck you drive by and you look at it—you just want to see and learn the grisly details. And that’s what’s intrinsically enticing about a snafu on a huge scale, like a giant international mess-up of some kind. So that was sort of the fun reason why we wanted to tell these particular kinds of stories.

But then also what’s made it—and what I think emerged for us in the writing of season one in a way that I don’t think I entirely expected—was how much... You know, we always like to say we can learn from history, right? There are lessons in history. Probably the best quote is, "The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history."

But in these individual episodes or individual events, it is really, really powerful to contemplate different outcomes, different processes. Who made the right decisions here? Who made the wrong decisions? Who saved the day? How did they do it? And who do we want to emulate?

And I love that—that is also such a fun part of SNAFU—just breaking down the lessons and the takeaways. Some of these things have really powerful social implications.

Carmen: Yes.

Ed Helms: Cultural implications. They’re not just sort of like, “Hey, don’t launch a nuclear missile.”

Carmen: That’s right. We probably could have gotten that one without the whole series.

Well, I will say that one of the things I think sometimes about all of these snafus and other times that we look at history, sometimes it’s just revelatory to think about—how did they get there from here?

What about that can I take in my own decision-making, in my own way of thinking about challenges? And when I’m looking at world events, what should I pay attention to? Because sometimes when you’re looking at a story...

Carmen: ...done while they’re in the midst of it—you know, why they didn’t understand certain things?

Ed Helms: Mm-hmm.

Carmen: But as we know, kind of history sometimes can repeat itself, or certainly there are things that are happening and now you can know what to look for. So you can be better prepared. And sometimes it’s just interesting to look at history so you can go, “Hmm, that feels real familiar. Maybe we should pay a little bit more attention to this, guys.”

Ed Helms: Absolutely. And also there’s so much history that is powerful and meaningful that has been lost or pushed aside or just kind of muddied because of whoever was the dominant storyteller at the time. You know, they say history is written by the winners. That’s reductive, but true. And so it’s interesting to look—well, maybe the losers have some really powerful, meaningful stories. Maybe the winners were really bad, right? And they had bad intentions.

So I think exploring history that you’re not familiar with, that you don’t know—episodes that you’ve never heard about—it’s almost like fractal geometry. It doesn’t matter how small of an event it was, it can still be revelatory for you.

Carmen: I will say, one of the reasons why we’re talking to Ed is because we’re talking about how do we use our platform to make a difference in whatever way we can. And we’ve heard a lot about how Ed is doing it from his standpoint.

One of the things—you know, Ed has this platform where he can have a show, right? A lot of us don’t have a chance to have a show. But Ed also is really supportive of Oberlin and has done things like—we have this thing called ObieWood, where our students and alumni who are all out in Hollywood doing all these incredible things—people may not know how much of an imprint Oberlin is making on Hollywood in all these interesting ways.

And so he’s out there helping people get connected, and sometimes I think when you think about activism or involvement or being engaged, you think it has to be some big thing. But sometimes it’s that small thing. It’s that connection. It’s that moment of kindness. It’s that, “Hey, I’m just gonna give you some advice on your script,” or, “Let me introduce you to this other person.”

That’s also activism. It’s that small act of kindness that is really about wanting to make the world a better place.

Ed Helms: I think that’s really well said. And that’s something I think Oberlin does so well—instills this sense of service. You know, there’s a big old world out there. Let’s be a part of it, and let’s make it better.

Carmen: ...we think when we wanna kind of be involved that it has to be some kind of massive thing. But you know, in that instance you were like starting where you were—you’re in college doing some work. That helps us because we wanna help students go out and change the world for good.

So anything you would say, Ed, to the students—the person on the street—who’s like, “Yeah, I kind of wanna get involved. I kinda wanna do something, but I’m feeling like... where do I begin with these issues that seem so kind of overwhelming?” I mean, I know our students talk to me about that sometimes. Like, the issues sometimes seem intractable, overwhelming.

How can I do anything?

Ed Helms: Yeah, well first of all, check in with yourself. Check in and check your bandwidth. Make sure you’re not kind of trying to take on too much. And really, I think one of the ways that we can all help the world is to help ourselves be more grounded and, you know, less anxious and freaked-out people. That is—that’s one of the things we can actually do that helps the world—is to make ourselves, help ourselves be healthy.

Carmen: Yeah. I say that to my kids all the time. Like, “What’s the best way to help the world? Well, first help yourself a little bit.”

Ed Helms: Yeah.

Carmen: So you have the ability to help.

Ed Helms: Exactly. Then, I would say start really small—just like you said at the beginning. Just be nice to someone in line at the grocery store.

Even if they’re buying soy milk. I mean, come on.

Carmen: Even if they’re buying soy milk—or they have like 3,000 items in the express lane.

Ed Helms: Yeah.

Carmen: Could you get in the right line, people?

Ed Helms: Whoa, no—that’s over the line, Carmen. Are you kidding me?

Carmen: You shouldn’t help them.

Ed Helms: You can’t do that.

Carmen: You should be rude to them. Like, “Get yourself out of this line.”

Ed Helms: There is a strict cutoff. Fourteen items or less. That’s it.

But I think kindness is—it’s so...

Ed Helms: …sometimes hard, depending on our state of mind, to be that way, but it’s always worth the effort.

Carmen: Yeah.

Ed Helms: And then, you know, if you really do want to get involved in issues that feel massive, that’s what RepresentUs did for me. It allowed me to insert myself into an organization that I thought was taking on the right problems. And so look around. Look for the people who are doing the things that matter to you on whatever issue it is—or set of issues—and look at where they’re channeling their energy.

You know, it’s great if you have a mentor. Mentors can help you out and really give you a lot of guidance. But for me, I didn’t really have a mentor in my early adulthood. What I did have was a lot of North Stars—whether it was an actor or a comedian or a businessperson or just a friend or somebody that I admired for some reason. I would analyze their path and be like, “Are there cues? Are there turns that they took on their path that might help me too, or that I can emulate?” And certainly in my show business career, that’s been instrumental—kind of studying a few of my heroes.

And look for lots of heroes. Just look for lots of people who are doing cool things around you—things that you admire. Then just study them a little bit. You don’t have to know them. If you do, great. Then you can ask them directly.

Carmen: Yeah.

Ed Helms: But a lot of times, the people we really admire are at a distance, and they’re not accessible. But you can still kind of dig a little bit.

Carmen: You can still learn from them.

Ed Helms: Absolutely.

Carmen: I’m just wondering whether you had anyone that you wanted to name—like mentors. Either people that were in your lives that you looked to, or people that were from afar that helped you kind of calibrate how you might think about your work.

Ed Helms: Yeah, absolutely. I think as a young person growing up in Georgia, but be—

Ed Helms: Yeah, absolutely. I think as a young person growing up in Georgia, being obsessed with comedy—and Saturday Night Live in particular—a lot of those actors were kind of my early North Stars. Eddie Murphy probably had the most profound impact on me, because I started watching him when I was probably nine years old. He was on Saturday Night Live, and I just found him intoxicating. The freedom that he had when he was performing, the unbelievable confidence...

And then of course, I was watching his stand-up specials when I was way too young.

Carmen: Yeah, yeah.

Ed Helms: But just loving every minute.

Carmen: Weren’t we all watching his specials when we were way too young?

Ed Helms: Yeah, of course. And I didn’t understand half of it, but I just knew that it was supposed to be funny. And I loved—it was just something about his energy that I loved.

So I watched him from a performance standpoint. Then as I got older, I started looking at different Saturday Night Live cast members and analyzing how they got there and what their paths were. So like, it was Kevin Nealon and Phil Hartman and guys like that. And then when I got into college, it was David Spade and...

Carmen: Oh yeah.

Ed Helms: ...Chris Rock and Chris Farley.

And especially as a young comedian, there were certain comedians I really looked up to. I would just be in their orbit and, at the right time, ask a question here or there. Then—they’re my mentor and they don’t even know it.

Carmen: Absolutely.

Ed Helms: They haven’t made some decision to help Ed Helms rise through the ranks, but I’ve just sort of decided, “This is someone I’m going to kind of learn from.” And there were a few people early on that gave me just enough time of day...

Carmen: To get you to the next one.

Ed Helms: Yeah, or just to keep cranking. And comedy ain’t easy.

Carmen: Yeah, I call those people sometimes “faith extenders.”

Ed Helms: Oh, I love that.

Carmen: I just need you to extend my faith just a little...

Carmen: Like I don’t need you for a year.

Ed Helms: Yeah.

Carmen: I need you for these two weeks.

Ed Helms: And by the way, I don’t need all the answers from you. I just need a little bit of your wisdom.

Carmen: I only have one more question, but I just want to thank you before I ask it, because, you know, one of the things that I’m trying to do in my role is, you know, I get a chance to lead this really incredible institution that, you know, this is my bias, but I—as I say all the time—I’m biased, but I know I’m right.

You know, I believe that the world needs more Oberlin graduates and that this institution produces people like Ed Helms, who—yes—are great artists, yes, are doing so well in their kind of what you call their professional careers, but underneath that is a commitment to doing good in whatever way they can.

So I just thank you, Ed, for being one of the examples that our students can look to, to know that what they want to achieve is possible. So my last question is the easiest question of all the questions, Ed, which is: Are you optimistic about humankind? Like, you know, are we gonna make it, you know? These intractable, challenging problems—what, you think we’re gonna be okay?

Ed Helms: Nope, we’re not. It’s not good.

Carmen: It’s over.

Ed Helms: It’s not good.

Carmen: I was gonna say, this is gonna be a terrible end of this podcast if Ed goes, “Yeah, no, sorry, Carmen. We’re done.”

Ed Helms: Yeah. Me and this laptop are about to jump out this 10-story window.

Here’s the thing—I would be lying if I said like, “Yeah, everything’s gonna be great.” You kidding me? But I do believe—let me start with something grim, which is—I’m very sad at what has become very clear, which is that humans are not capable of comprehending cataclysm at scale. You know, we’re watching—basically watching the Earth turn into a ball of fire.

Carmen: Right?

Ed Helms: And we’re—all we’re doing is just kin—

Ed Helms: ...of writing news stories about it and talking to our friends, being like, “Oh my gosh, can you believe this is crazy?” But this is the Earth giving us alarm bells. We’re still just kind of like, “Yeah man, I guess that’s kind of crazy.” So I am very dismayed by what seems to be a kind of evolutionary glitch in the human race, which is we just can’t understand, comprehend, or sort of take on problems at that scale automatically.

But I am also very encouraged that that seems to be shifting. And as much frustration and division as there is in America right now, I think what’s even more powerful is a desire for it to be better and a desire for it to heal and get better. There, unfortunately, is a lot of just kind of nihilistic rage we’re dealing with. I mean, that’s very real. And honestly I get it. Like I get feeling that way.

Carmen: There’s a few things to be mad about, Ed, I’ll give you that.

Ed Helms: Yeah. But we just have to tap into the best version of ourselves. And, you know, I have kids, so I don’t have a choice. I gotta just try to make this world as beautiful as I can because my kids are the most amazing creatures the world has ever known, and I want them to thrive and be happy.

Carmen: You said it right there, Ed. That’s why we do what we do, and that’s why you do what you do. Thanks, Ed Helms.

Ed Helms: It’s been awesome. Oh, it’s been so fun. Thank you. Appreciate you.