Running to the Noise, Episode 30 (Part 2)

Travis O’Daniel: Hey, it's Travis back with part two of our season three wrap-up. Eloise and I are sharing more of our conversations with this season's guests. Let's jump back in

Carmen Twillie Ambar: I'm Carmen Twillie Ambar, president of Oberlin College and Conservatory. Welcome to Running to the Noise, where I speak with all sorts of folks who are tackling our toughest problems and working to spark positive change around the world. Because here at Oberlin, we don't shy away from the challenging situations that threaten to divide us, we run towards them.

There were so many great moments with Ben Wittes in part one. His episode definitely stands out to me. What about you, Travis?

Travis: Like I mentioned before, Rumaan Alam, I loved that episode. I've gotten to keep in touch with Rumaan, who has been so wonderful. And funnily enough, he knows a lot of the people that I became well-acquainted with during my internship at HarperCollins.

Carmen: Oh, nice. Oh, that's right.

Travis: So we have a few overlapping networks going on, but he's gotten me in touch with so many great people in the publishing and book agency world. And I just loved hearing about the perspective from a writer. As someone who works in publishing a lot, I don't get to think as much from that side of the book, which was super incredible.

But the other episode that I think really stuck with me was the episode with Georgia Heers and LaTanya Hall. Georgia, of course, studied jazz voice at Oberlin with LaTanya Hall and went on to star in Good Night, and Good Luck with George Clooney on Broadway. Such a great episode, and I think very representative of the Oberlin experience, where you get to make such great connections with your professors that last a lifetime.

I know that I'm still in touch with a lot of my Oberlin professors, um, even just to, you know, catch up, and I think that that is something that is so uniquely Oberlin, and everyone that I know that went to Oberlin has at least one of those professors who they have-

Carmen: Yeah …

Travis: formed that relationship with. And so I just loved getting to hear them talk about that at such a level, and it was just so heartwarming.

Eloise Rich: One of my favorite episodes was with Joe Richman, the founder of Radio Diaries. I think he taught us a lot about how to approach people in public, how to ask questions, and to not be afraid of it

Travis: We are so excited to be speaking with Joe Richman today. Hi, Joe.

Joe Richman: Hi, how you doing?

Eloise: Good, how are you?

Joe: Good.

Travis: So you've said before that our ears have the ability to detect what is true. And in a time when misinformation is really dominating public life, are there any projects that you're working on or you're excited about that are helping people learn how to listen to strangers with different views?

And how can these projects bring people together right now?

Joe: I think you have nailed basically what is our mission in this moment. I'm thinking a lot about this because, yeah, there is a fracturing of information ecosystems, and a questioning of an agreed-upon truth, which obviously is a very fundamental prerequisite for operating in a, in a society.

So it's a big deal if we're not agreeing on something. What we try to do, what we're kind of positioned to do and what I believe in, is how do we investigate it. As there's less maybe agreed upon informational truth, can we rely on something more like an emotional truth? People's personal stories, something that just feels true in your body, something that you just kind of…

Everyone can potentially, hopefully have a universal reaction to. And maybe some of those stories can bridge some of the divide that in our country we're having a harder time bridging in a factual, more traditional factual way. So we're looking at stories, human stories, individual stories, that hopefully can transcend this legitimate problem about just not agreeing on basic truth.

Eloise: Another interesting thing that you noted is that this moment right now is history. As it's being lived, what is your role in recording that? What projects are you working on right now that are navigating this reality?

Joe: For the last couple years, we've done a lot of stories on American history. We've just made a real pivot in this moment.

Partly it's because we lost a lot of funding from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Yeah. So there's like a… That, you know, it's not all philosophy. It's partly, like, nuts and bolts. But philosophically, this does feel like a historic moment. The stories that we're recording now feel like they can be part of an archive for the future in some ways.

But I think more importantly, we're all trying to make sense of this moment, and we're trying to tell… What we can do well is kind of go narrow and small and inside, so do small individual stories that hopefully tell something bigger. Mm-hmm. And for example, we're doing a story about a young girl who's deciding to self-deport back to Mexico because of feeling like she can't really invest in her life and her home in America right now, even though she's been here since she was a kid.

So that, that maybe is a one-person story, but maybe gets at a larger truth.

Eloise: Right.

Travis: And as you just mentioned, Radio Diaries has had nearly 40% of its funding cut, I believe. How have you navigated that cut, and how has that affected your ability to tell these stories?

Joe: Yeah, I, I don't quite exactly know the answer to that right now-

other than, like, personally I'm spending a lot more of my time fundraising and grant writing and looking for people who wanna support our work than doing the work. So that's- Right … an unfortunate reality at this moment. But, you know, we are so not alone. There are a lot of organizations that have seen cuts of various sorts.

The foundations and the funders are seeing a lot of need out there. Obviously, the public radio system has been cut, so that doesn't affect us directly, but the whole kind of landscape of independent journalism is being challenged. It's challenging, and I'm leaning on the mission of it right now. There has been no more important time that I can think of for independent, unbought, unbiased journalism than there is now, and for the kind of journalism that I think that we can do, which is more personal stories, getting inside the story, stories over time, that sort of emotional truth that, again, hopefully can get past some of the agendas and guardrails we have up against hearing something that may not fit our worldview.

Eloise: Actually, I have a follow-up related specifically to the story that you just mentioned to us, and I don't know how much you can say at this point, but how are you navigating that? I mean, what to me seems sort of like an ethical barrier in this individual who's sharing her story.

Joe: Tell me more about what, uh, what ethical barrier do you imagine?

Eloise: Well, I mean, I guess the, her decision to, to self-deport, is that an ongoing process? Is there any sort of that external legal interaction that is happening right now, and how is she going about sharing that and being selective and maybe even careful?

Joe: Yeah. It's a good point that it's a story that we couldn't tell in an ongoing way, because then that would continue to potentially affect her and her situation.

So it's a story that won't be released and broadcast until after the fact, or at least after her-- she goes back to Mexico. So that's one answer. But also, her family is in all different situations. A li- it's a little bit of a family portrait, too. Her sister is staying in America. Her dad is staying in America.

Her mom already self-deported back to Mexico. So they're all making different choices, and that's a little bit of the underlying story of her story, is how each family member is being affected in different ways. Part of the question is being very honest with every family member about what this means to do the story, how it'll come out, where it'll come out, and how this may or may not affect them and their situations.

Yeah, the transparency is, is hugely important in a story like this.

Travis: And I'm so glad that you asked that question, Eloise, 'cause we both work for The Oberlin Review, our newspaper here on campus and for the city, and we are beginning to have to really take into considerations our ethical responsibilities.

So that's something that we're navigating. That's kind of a segue into our final question, which is, we both grew up being told to be wary while talking to strangers. What advice would you offer to young and aspiring journalists about how to listen better and how to, uh, maintain that attention?

Joe: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that.

The whole idea of talking to strangers is something that I think about because it's this advice we get as kids, and I think it's such sad advice. You know? Like, as a journalist, it's so central, the idea- Mm-hmm … of talking to strangers, of course. But it's, feels like just an important approach to be a human being.

Not just that we should talk to strangers, but how do we talk to strangers? You know, how do we approach people? What kind of intention and energy and openness do we bring? And then how fun it is To be curious and to learn something about someone that you weren't expecting. How, how wonderful that moment is when you have a thought about someone, or you have some sort of preconceived judgment and you realize, "Oh, I'm an idiot.

That's not true at all." Like, I love those moments when I realize how wrong I am because of just whatever I'm bringing to a person or situation. So I think talking to strangers, it's fundamental for just humanity. It's fundamental certainly for a democracy. Mm-hmm. So I am full on in favor of talking to strangers, and to telling parents that that's really bad advice to give to their kids.

Eloise: Yeah. I mean, for listeners, and for ourselves even, what's our first step? You know, what should we do tomorrow?

Joe: The thing that turns me on about being a journalist is just interviewing people. Finding someone that I'm curious about or that seems to have a story, and interviewing them, whether it's pen and paper, whether it's microphone, whether it's just the voice memo of your iPhone.

There's something great about talking to strangers, but even more, to, to take it to another level, the interview, where you bring a little bit of formality and a request, and, "Can I get 30 minutes, 45 minutes of your time? Can we sit down in a quiet place? Can I talk to you? Can we make this a little more formal?"

Those are conversations that wouldn't happen otherwise. You might get some sort of chat conversation with a friend, and that might be some really beautiful conversation. But when you make it an interview, there's an opportunity for something deeper to happen, somewhere between just a regular conversation and something a little more purposeful.

I would recommend everyone to just find someone and do an interview. It's like an artistic practice- Mm-hmm … to just sit down with someone and do an interview.

Eloise: Yeah.

Travis: Well, I think that's all we've got for you today. All right. Thank you so much for coming and talking to us- Thanks … on this little hole about.

Joe: You're welcome so much. I enjoy any opportunity at all to connect with Oberlin, but also specifically Oberlin students.

Eloise: Thank you.

What he told us, I think about a lot as I am trying to build a career in journalism, is that, "Don't listen to your parents when they say don't talk to people."

Carmen: Mm, yes.

Eloise: You know?

Carmen: That's right. That

Eloise: is- Talk to strangers.

Carmen: That's right. That's, he did say that, yeah.

Eloise: And I have to remind myself of that, 'cause it is scary, you know?

It, it's a little vulnerable to say that it's scary, but it is.

Carmen: Particularly in the world that we're in right now, it's counter-cultural. Right. We're, we're on our phones, we have our headphones on. And I remember at one point when I was living in New York City, I used to say that you would judge your success through the day by how little you had to talk to strangers.

Eloise: Yeah.

Carmen: You know what I mean? Like, "Oh, this was a great day. I didn't have to talk to my neighbor." And that's the opposite of what you all have to do, and opposite of what I have to do in my role, too.

Eloise: Yeah.

Carmen: They're not so much strangers, 'cause they're students and faculty and people who care about Oberlin, but you can't be sitting there deciding that you don't wanna have a conversation with anybody.

So last question for you all. So now you're alums, you're former producers. Is there any kind of story that you wanna hear on Running to the Noise or areas that you want us to focus on, or other things you might think about that we could do now that you're maybe a little bit on the other side of being in the midst of this work that we used to do together every month?

Eloise: I've been thinking honestly about the faculty and student aspect. I think that that is very unique, and I, I don't know if necessarily we'll find another relationship just like that. I mean-

Carmen: Yeah, just like Georgia …

Eloise: I'm sure if we did a little digging, exactly. Yeah,

Carmen: like, just like Georgia Heers and, and our faculty member in the conservatory, yeah.

That was- Yeah … a special one.

Eloise: But I mean, faculty are doing so much research all the time, and I think that those could make for some really cool and interesting conversations. I've helped some faculty on research, so there are certainly students around. And then to speak for the people- Yeah … you know, to speak for our graduating class, I know that the class of 2026 and probably the ones around us are always gonna want Lena Dunham on Running to the Noise.

Travis: Yes. The hunt for Lena continues.

Carmen: That's interesting. Lena Dunham. Who did I see her on? You know, I saw her on Amy Poehler's podcast. Yeah. Did you see her on there?

Eloise: Yes. It was a great episode.

Carmen: Is there anything for you, Travis, that you wanna see, an issue, an area?

Travis: Well, another episode that stands out to me is when we had Soledad O'Brien on, and- Yes

which was such an incredible conversation, too. And she's an OB parent, so I think that we could branch into OB parent fields, too, and see, 'cause I'm sure there's so many more interesting stories out there, and we could have, like, Danny DeVito on, who has done a lot- … with the Apollo. Just exploring more narratives of people who are, like, adjacent to Oberlin, I guess, and why they choose to continue to support the institution and what they're up to.

Things like that could be super cool.

Carmen: Yeah, that's interesting. Take the parent angle. Well, I have to say, the parent angle is interesting because my experience with students who are here on Oberlin's campus at the time, they are less interested in us talking to their parents. Now, maybe they might be willing to do it when they graduate, right?

But my experience is, "Hey, this is my space. This is my world." "I don't wanna have my parents engaged in it right now." So maybe we should go to these parents when the students are, have graduated. 'Cause some people know that my kids are here on Oberlin's campus, and I was just saying to a group of prospective students today that, you know, you would think that my presence here might be a draw for my kids.

But they're like every other kid. They're like, "No, that was a negative, Mom. You being here was a problem." Oberlin had to overcome that- … for us to come here.

Travis: But it did. They still ended up.

Carmen: That's right. They still… And I'm like that for students whose parents are like, "Yeah, let's don't get my parents involved."

But it's a fair point. Maybe we can go and look at some of those OB parents who are credibly accomplished in the same way that we know that their children will be as well. I'm wondering, we've done lots of episodes together, and I don't know if you feel like there's a common thread through the episodes that you recognize now in retrospect that came through with the alums and others that we talked to.

Is there anything that you say, "Man, now that I think about it, this is something that was weaving through all the episodes that we did"? Anything that stands out?

Eloise: Yeah, I mean, I think I've worked on 20 episodes of this podcast or something. Oh my God, is that

Carmen: true?

Eloise: I think so, yeah.

Carmen: You've worked on 20 episodes? My lord.

Eloise: 'Cause for me it's been since the summer after my sophomore year. Detecting just one thread is-

Carmen: Yeah,

Eloise: hard … is hard, but I think I would call it the multi-hyphenate effect that Oberlin has, and that's something we talked about with a multi-hyphenate young talented trio, singer Tamara Jade, comedian EJ Marcus, and model Seyquan Mack.

Travis: We just have two simple questions. Our first one though is do you have a favorite Oberlin memory, and what is a story that you find yourself retelling people after graduation?

Seyquan Mack: One that's PG. Yeah, I don't know.

Carmen: This is a family show. True. So yes, so y'all think about the ones you can actually say.

EJ Marcus: I've got one. I lived in a really old house on Professor Street my senior year with a bunch of my friends. It was amazing. I love it, love thinking about it. We had I, I think Good Talk still exists, right? The sketch group?

Carmen: Yeah.

EJ: Okay, yes. The sketch

Carmen: group, yeah.

EJ: Yeah. So me and a couple of my other friends were in it, Rue Anderson and Michelle Chu. We were doing a fundraiser for some Good Talk thing that was coming up, and so we were like, "Okay, perfect. We'll have a huge party, invite as many people as possible, and then we'll sell, like, different random things."

Like, truly, like, I think someone made food. We, like, sold goodies, like, prizes for random things. And the party got so huge, people were jumping up and down. It was so fun. The entire floor broke. Oh, Lord.

Eloise: That's a classic. Like,

EJ: completely collapsed. Yeah. But, but you

Carmen: all survived, and… Ev-

EJ: no one was hurt. No one was hurt.

Thank you. And I will say, Jerry, who was our landlord, he also owns Watson's Hardware- Mm-hmm … it wasn't his first time dealing with that kinda thing, and he was totally chill about it.

Carmen: Yeah, okay. Oberlin students broke through the floor. That

EJ: sounds right. Yeah. He was like, "It's fine. I'll be over there later.

Thanks for telling me."

Tamara Jade: I'm, I'ma be honest with y'all, every memory is some- … liquor or, or decisions. Like, I'm really trying here, guys, and they all… I had a great time. Let's just say that. There you go. Okay. I had a great time.

Carmen: Excellent. Favorite Oberlin memory is just a good time in general. Yeah. We had a great

Tamara: time.

Carmen: We, we, we, that's on GP general.

Tamara: I love it. We can talk about this offline.

Carmen: I'll tell you every story you wanna know.

Seyquan: I think, I think my favorite Oberlin memory… So when I was in Oberlin, I was the chairman of OCBMG, Oberlin College Black Musicians Guild.

Carmen: Seyquan, you had really, for the audience, you had kind of, I don't wanna say reestablished, but certainly got it kind of going again.

You all were a part of the students that kinda reinvigorated that organization. Right.

Seyquan: Yeah. I made it my duty to really bring Black talent and Black artists to Oberlin. And so I think it was the end of my second year when Cali Day, who was a gospel singer- Mm-hmm … she did a really big viral video. It was across all platforms.

And I got to bring her, and that was probably the biggest concert. That wa- Mm. Warner Hall was packed like sardines.

Carmen: Yes. Oh, yeah.

Seyquan: So it was just a great moment to really see, like, people not only from the conservatory, but also the college just come out and support. Yeah,

Carmen: the campus.

Seyquan: Yeah, the campus just really showed out and really loved it.

Really great moment. Well,

Carmen: I mean, I think that's one of the things that's really great about Oberlin. You can do big things here- Yeah … as a student, and I think because of our reach as an institution, really incredible people will- Yeah … come here and be a part of the Oberlin experience for students, and that was a big one.

There've been, there's a lot of big concerts, but that was a big one, and packed- Yeah … and lots of fun had by all.

Seyquan: So much.

Eloise: We have one last question for the three of you. What is one piece of media that each of you are hooked on right now? It could be artist, musician, writer, television show, movie, book, et cetera.

Tamara: I mean, I'm ashamed to say TikTok.

TikTok got me. That's right. TikTok got me, bam. I be scrolling all day and all night. It's so entertaining to me. It is my very own- … cable television right now. It's, whether it's storytelling or people doing skits or, like, just skits I never even thought of. This girl just did, like, when you're on a date and the water goes down the wrong pipe, and she was like, "Yep."

Like, that thing took me down. Yeah. So I- yeah, I'm an auntie. TikTok is my Facebook.

EJ: I'm obsessed with The Pitt right now. Oh. Yes. I can't stop. I'm, like, so invested.

Carmen: Yeah. You watched the, you watched the first season already, and now, 'cause the second season just started,

EJ: so. Second season just premiered, and it also, we were in the writer's room for Rachel's show on the same lot as when they were filming it.

Oh, okay. And to be honest, I was like, "Okay, they're making some stupid medical show again." 'Cause we were seeing all these people walking around in, like, the medical gowns with, like, blood all over them, and I was like, "Great, this will be awesome." And then Yeah.

Carmen: It's

EJ: the best show ever. So it's sort of like, okay.

Carmen: Yeah, I have to admit I, I watch that show. I haven't gotten to the second season yet. But yeah, for those who don't know it, it's a 24-hour look. Each episode is a period in one day, and I think it's Noah Wyle, I think is who's, who's the star of that show. Yes. So yeah, that's a good one. Stay calm.

Seyquan: My, mine's just not as exci- It's exciting to me.

I've been going on a, a getting into a rabbit hole of Judi Dench. So I've been watching a lot of her- Mm-hmm … older films.

Carmen: Yes.

Seyquan: And her scripts. Grand

Carmen: dame Judi Dench, essentially.

Seyquan: Yeah.

Carmen: Yeah.

Seyquan: Exactly. Because that's just, her speaking is so good. Yeah, she's

Carmen: a great actress.

Seyquan: She's a great actress. She's fabulous.

Travis: I was watching her Macbeth.

Yeah.

Seyquan: But a really good speaker

Eloise Rich: And just how I myself have become a multi-hyphenate by the end of my Oberlin career and how all of these Obies, they're writers, they're researchers, they're scientists, you know, they're journalists, they're lawyers, they're so much. And it reminds me that I don't have to just stick to one thing. Mm. What I choose to do in the early stages of my career-

Carmen: Yeah

Eloise: is not my whole career.

Carmen: Yep.

Eloise: And that is something to, you know, be grateful for.

Carmen: Yeah, no, I think that's great. I don't know what you were gonna add to that too, Travis, but I think that's a fair kind of thread. And some people know this about Oberlin, but you know, many more of our students double major than at most institutions, and then they're adding integrated concentrations on top of that, and these other things outside the classroom that really resonate and are a deep and rich part of their experience.

I think that's one of the reasons why we're the number one liberal arts college for MacArthur Genius Award winners, right? Because I think it is about this kind of multifaceted ways that Obies think about the world, and part of that's because of all the different things that they do. When I describe the Oberlin experience to parents and families and say, "What is it about our academic and musical experience that makes us the best institution in the country?"

It is because we help students learn how to analyze complexity. And then students learn here how to take complex, sometimes intractable problems, break them down into their component parts, and then put them back together in ways that are larger than their sum. And that's what we talked about when we talked to Cecilia Conrad, the head of what used to be the MacArthur Genius Award area.

Travis: I guess I am curious because I think so many Oberlin students are so passionate about making change. I think that's what draws a lot of people to Oberlin. How would you suggest postgrad students can get started in philanthropy and keep up with that early on in their careers to make an impact?

Cecilia Conrad: I think there are different paths to point to.

The first is whether or not you want to work in philanthropy or you wanna become a philanthropist. And I just wanna make this point because you can become a philanthropist. You probably already are. You're probably already giving. It's important to recognize that's an important part of, particularly a part of American society, it's a part of societies all over the world, being in a posture of giving and sharing and so forth.

If you're interested in working in philanthropy, there are paths that are introductory sort of paths as associates. Sometimes they're on the business side of philanthropy. There's also real value in philanthropy and in the nonprofit sector more broadly in certain kind of skills that are in short supply.

Financial skills, economics background, coding background, computer skills, tech skills, and also communication skills, which both of you have. Nonprofits could really use help with storytelling. I was just talking to somebody the other day about this. It's one of the barriers to getting inside in philanthropy, getting inside big foundations, is you need something that's really gonna capture the attention, and thinking about understanding how people respond to different messages is a skill set that many nonprofits and foundations need.

So there are ways of packaging the skills you have. There's also ways of planning to think about that further down the road after you have gone down some other path. Maybe you've been in investment banking and made some money. Mm-hmm. Now it's time you could start doing, using some of that money to help make the world better.

Eloise: Yeah.

Speaker to confirm: Awesome.

Eloise: Yeah. Something that really struck me in your conversation was the whole notion of finding comfort in the sort of ambiguity that comes in the nonprofit sector. And as I've mentioned, I've been the president of a nonprofit for the past year, and what advice would you give particularly to a young woman going into that, keeping my head up, a smile on my face as I look in that world?

Cecilia: One of the things that it helps me as I deal with the uncertainty around even the work that I'm doing, is the recognition that if I stop tomorrow, have I made a difference?

Speaker to confirm: Hmm. Wow.

Cecilia: Like, has… If something happens and I really do have to say, "Okay, that's it, we've gone as far as we can go," have I set in place dynamics that can continue to change after we're gone?

I think so. Mm-hmm. I think I'm seeing more and more openness in how people are thinking about their philanthropy, more and more empaneling of community members to help make decisions. So I would feel good, and so I think that's one of the things I keep in mind. I'm also, and this is weird, I'll tell you-

because some of my… And I'll say that I realize that some of my staff do not feel comforted this way, but I frequently feel comforted by working out the worst case scenario and having it in a drawer. Like, okay, I'm gonna go get that now. I once shared that with my team, though, and that was not a good idea.

Carmen: They were like, "Oh my God, I can't take it." Not everybody can handle the worst case scenario. No. That is true.

Cecilia: I thought it would comfort them that I was ready for it, but no.

Carmen: Yeah.

Cecilia: But it is a, one of the strategies is just thinking through sort of different scenarios. They were comfortable with the scenario planning.

Right. Right. And that I find is a good exercise, and it's a good exercise to not try and do by yourself, but this is, again, where different forms of expertise can have different perspectives and give you different ideas- Right … and help you come up with the best solutions.

Carmen: Excellent.

Eloise: Yeah. Great. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Travis. Thanks, Emily. I

Cecilia: look forward to- Yes … seeing you at Clinton. Very excited for Monday. All right. Yeah. I'm excited too. I got my speech ready.

Carmen: That is why Obies change the world for good, because you can't be a narrow, singular thinker to think about what's happening in the world, and you can't be rigid in your views. You have to be open and diverse and just have lots of areas where you're thoughtful. And you, Eloise, even talked about it, that one of the things you appreciated about this opportunity was to be able to be broad researcher, get up to speed quickly on something.

I would offer up that's an Oberlin trait because the talent is broad. I'm not just a dancer. I'm a neuroscientist, and I also work at the Bike Co-op, and I do a little bit of cooking on the side. And so that's what it means to be an Obie. You hit on an interesting through line of just this kind of multi-talented person who then puts all those talents together in ways that you go, "Oh my God.

Who would have put that together?" And that's exactly right What say you, Travis, about kind of this through line?

Travis: This is definitely more general, but all of the people that we've interviewed are just such quintessential Obies, and you can tell by the way that they talk and the stories that they tell.

They're all just people who run to the noise. Right. Who identify a problem or something that they're passionate about, and they just go headfirst into it. That's something that I have especially been learning and inspired to do post-grad is, you know- Mm … just reaching out to people and being fearless. I'm not afraid to send any email.

Carmen: There you go.

Travis: So I feel like everyone, the through line is just that Obie spirit that, you know, you see out in the world, and maybe we're better equipped to see it because we're Obies, but I- it's just been something that's been so identifiable to me.

Carmen: I love that phrase. It's another way to say running to the noise is the Obie spirit.

That's just what it is. I wonder how many questions you've watched me ask over the multiple episodes that you all have done, and how many questions you've written for me to ask. But I wonder if there are any question, now that you've watched these podcasts over all these times, is there any question that sticks with you?

Like, a type of question that you might take with you, that you might ask people, that you might ask yourself over the course of time that we all do in our lives to find our purpose. Is there any particular question that sticks out?

Eloise: There's a very titular question- … that sticks out to me, which is, "How do you run to the noise?"

And I don't know if I know that for myself quite yet. I'd like to figure it out. It's a daunting question. I was always amazed by the answers we would get to that question. You could never guess- Mm-hmm. Yeah … what they were going to say, and it was always just so moving. And I would like to be able to deliver an answer to that question.

Give me 5,

Carmen: 10 years. Give you 5 to 10 years, and we'll come back- Yeah … have you on and say, "How do you run to the noise?" Yeah. Is that the same for you, Travis?

Travis: Definitely. And another one that always stood out to me was when we would ask, "How did your time at Oberlin prepare you for the career that you're in?"

Because so many times you would talk to people who were astrophysicists, and they were a creative writing major at Oberlin. That's right. And so I feel like I'm always looking for ways that my time at Oberlin can prepare me for something maybe unexpected. I'm looking for life skills that I learned that could lead me in a totally different route than the one I'm going in, and those were some of my favorite stories to hear from our guests.

Carmen: That's right. I think both of those are great because people would say the most off-the-wall things, and you'd be like, "I don't know how we got from-" "… you know, I used to work at wherever, at Oberlin, and now I'm the head of the United Nations." You're like, "Okay." Yeah. "I don't see how we got there, but it totally makes sense to me."

You know, it's interesting. I started asking that running to the noise question, I didn't ask it, I don't think, in my first few episodes. But it became such an important question to me because, yes, it was the impetus for the naming of this podcast, and I think I was the one who thought of that name, but it was about trying to figure out what animates you.

What is the thing that gives you purpose and meaning? I guess for me, one of the reasons why I enjoy what I do here at Oberlin is that my job is to fundraise and broad things that I'm tasked with doing. But at its core, I think what I'm tasked with doing is trying to create the type of environment that helps prepare our students to run to the noise.

There are moments where maybe I get a chance to do that in my own career in particular ways, but I'm trying to help create hundreds and thousands of people that can run to the noise, and that's one of the things that's most powerful about what I do. I don't have to just run to the noise myself, although I have some obligations to do that.

I get a chance to help try to create the type of environment that helps hundreds and hundreds. Every year, there are 700 to 800 graduates from Oberlin College, and at every graduation, I always say at the end to the students that, "You've gotten what you need here at Oberlin, and now the only thing left to do is to go out and fulfill your destiny."

And when I'm saying that, in my mind, I'm thinking to myself, "700 more people running to the noise, 700 more people going out to change the world for good. Check." Did my job this week. So I just appreciate Eloise, you saying, you know, "How am I gonna run to the noise?" 'Cause if I can be a part of helping 700 people go out and run to the noise, then I feel like I've done what I needed to do, and hopefully this podcast is a reminder to our students that there's lots of work to do, and they're a big part of it.

Eloise: Thank you. Thank you

Carmen: all. Thank you.

Travis: Awesome. Thank you so much. That wraps up our student-led episode and season three. Be sure to follow Running to the Noise for season four coming soon.

Carmen: Thanks for listening to Running to the Noise, a podcast produced by Oberlin College and Conservatory. Our music is composed by professor of jazz guitar, Bobby Ferrazza, and performed by the Oberlin Sonny Rollins Jazz Ensemble, a student group created through the support of the legendary jazz musician.

If you enjoyed the show, be sure to hit that subscribe button, leave us a review, and share this episode online so Obies and other folks can find us too. I'm Carmen Twillie Ambar, and I will be back soon with more great conversations from thought leaders on and off our campus.